The Golden Ratio

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Re: The Golden Ratio

Postby Apophys » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:27 pm

YetiChow wrote:By "wide end of the scale", I basically mean that the town I tested this in was designed purely for aesthetics and to fit the landscape, not for efficiency.

[...]

the "golden ratio" isn't designed to give optimal food efficiency - it's the absolute maximum stress load that the food system can take. To put it in plain terms, this is the minimum number of food workers needed for a worst-case scenario town.

1. Ah, I understand now.

2. I'm pretty sure, if you really wanted to, you could design a town so badly inefficient that it has a negative ratio (like 7 feeders : -1 workers), i.e. it needs more people to produce food to sustain it than the total population that needs feeding. For example, try basing it on cookies or raw snowcherries hauled by a roundabout route to storage on the other side of the map and brought back to a dining room by the farm. Heck, you could even attempt maximum inefficiency just to see what is the fastest starvation rate you can make from this (e.g. fewest days from 100 to 0 population :lol: ).
This would approach the rate of a town not producing any food at all, which would have a ratio like 1 feeder : -infinite workers.

So no, I don't think the golden ratio is even close to being a worst-case scenario for all towns.
You could argue that the golden ratio is the worst case for a reasonable town designed for aesthetics, but that is a terribly vague town definition, and aesthetics differ among people (must... be... perfectly... symmetric! :lol: ).
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Re: The Golden Ratio

Postby burningpet » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:44 pm

Malkiot wrote:Well... it is the most efficient setup in regards to how far a townie has to walk, therefore requiring the least amount of time (turns) per production cycle. It is also the easiest to build a wall-city around to protect against attacks. Plus, I like symmetry :D


I think a more efficient setup would be to move the production area to a higher level above the farms and get those farms closer together on the now free space.
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Re: The Golden Ratio

Postby Apophys » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:20 pm

burningpet wrote:
Malkiot wrote:Well... it is the most efficient setup in regards to how far a townie has to walk, therefore requiring the least amount of time (turns) per production cycle. It is also the easiest to build a wall-city around to protect against attacks. Plus, I like symmetry :D


I think a more efficient setup would be to move the production area to a higher level above the farms and get those farms closer together on the now free space.


Or below.

lv 0 and up: farms. lv -2: production area. lv -18 to -4: sleeping rooms. Have the 3D area taken up be approximately a sphere.

:D
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Re: The Golden Ratio

Postby Sanzul » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:26 pm

Apophys wrote:lv 0 and up: farms. lv -2: production area. lv -18 to -4: sleeping rooms.

With all workshops below the residences, to make sure no one has to walk past a carpentry to sleep.
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Re: The Golden Ratio

Postby Apophys » Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:48 am

Sanzul wrote:
Apophys wrote:lv 0 and up: farms. lv -2: production area. lv -18 to -4: sleeping rooms.

With all workshops below the residences, to make sure no one has to walk past a carpentry to sleep.

From a farm, walking past the carpentry to sleep is exactly the same as walking past the bakery to sleep, it's just a few squares downward. And I'd rather not haul wood all the way down to the bottom of the map past the sleep areas, that's creating its own inefficiency.
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Re: The Golden Ratio

Postby Sanzul » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:05 pm

Apophys wrote:
Sanzul wrote:
Apophys wrote:lv 0 and up: farms. lv -2: production area. lv -18 to -4: sleeping rooms.

With all workshops below the residences, to make sure no one has to walk past a carpentry to sleep.

From a farm, walking past the carpentry to sleep is exactly the same as walking past the bakery to sleep, it's just a few squares downward. And I'd rather not haul wood all the way down to the bottom of the map past the sleep areas, that's creating its own inefficiency.

You're going to have to walk past the bakery either way. What you want to avoid is to have to walk past both the bakery and the carpentry. The carpentry in particular may be handy to have up high, but the masonry and forge should be below the residences close to the mines.
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Re: The Golden Ratio

Postby Apophys » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:17 am

Sanzul wrote:
Apophys wrote:From a farm, walking past the carpentry to sleep is exactly the same as walking past the bakery to sleep, it's just a few squares downward. And I'd rather not haul wood all the way down to the bottom of the map past the sleep areas, that's creating its own inefficiency.

You're going to have to walk past the bakery either way. What you want to avoid is to have to walk past both the bakery and the carpentry. The carpentry in particular may be handy to have up high, but the masonry and forge should be below the residences close to the mines.


I prefer the masonry adjacent to the atelier, due to roadbuilding, and flowers grow on 0 (I build a LOT of roads, and they take all my stone). The masonry/atelier & forge storages should also be relatively near the market for short trading hauls (I mostly sell flowers/gels & metals). The market HAS to be very close to the center, since that's where idlers go. Bone swords take carpentry & forge. Poison bottles take forge & kitchen. There are a few more notable cross-zone items, I think.
Most importantly, work zones shouldn't be too far from the main dining room.

It just makes everything a lot simpler to have all the work zones on one floor. Still need to find an efficient arrangement of them and their storages on this floor, though.


So far in my current town, I spread the zones in eighths around a central dining room, with a single core 2x2 scaffold tower in the map's center. Bakery & kitchen get 2 eighths each, and production progression goes in a circle, approximately. Production sets are in 8x8 modules that I can paste outward as I need to.
I only have one 2x2 scaffold shaft so far, but I intend to have at least 9 eventually. I have 2-wide roads in all 8 directions, on every underground floor, for fast travel.

After watching it for a while, I think that in terms of efficiency it would scale slightly better if I made a ring of only food production zones and the market all the way around the dining room, with non-food work zones on an outer ring. However, this type of setup would be quite inflexible to the eventual expansion of food production.
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