They are dieing everywhere!

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They are dieing everywhere!

Postby Max » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:02 am

Okay, I have a big problem. I just lost 6 people: 5 to starvation, sixth went too far into the mine. A bit earlier I lost 5 elite soldiers because they heroically tossed themselves against a massive swarm of ghosts of past hereos that somehow came out of 3 corpses - it's like each corpse had 20 ghosts in it.

I get that games are difficult and it's easy to die when you're not careful enough, but what the hell am I supposed to do when they blatantly ignore a massive stockpile of food? Or go against massive swarms of enemies despite nobody being in danger (or those in danger being dead already)? Or stupid townies wandering to the deepest pits of dungeon to carry a bloody pile of bones?

Is there any plan to give at least soldiers an order to run or townies going to eat BEFORE they are starving? Like, to calculate if they will survive their heroic venture to retrieve some green slime surrounded by several hobgoblins?

Now I have a massive drop in population and happiness levels too low to rebuild it. Any suggestions?
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Re: They are dieing everywhere!

Postby supermalparit » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:04 am

I moved this post. Please, do not post on the bugs forums asking for game tips, I try to maintain that forum a bit clean.

Here you will receive your responses :)
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Re: They are dieing everywhere!

Postby Max » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:08 pm

Damn, I didn't know I was in bugs forum, must have accidentally clicked the wrong place, sorry!
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Re: They are dieing everywhere!

Postby Reyito » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:31 pm

All i can say, is with proper management (and the right kind of food) townies should NEVER starve doing just one task. (auto equip, or certain kinds of building items take several actions to complete, so not quite the same thing.)


TIPS.

1. Try to make your entrance to the dungeon in the center of the map.
--------This is not completely necessary, But can help forgive a multitude of other bad planning/pathing issues. My current game My entrance is on the center of the bottom right edge of the map... and I've never lost a townie to starvation... (except for one, whom managed to build himself into a closed room w/o me noticing it)


2. Only have one entrance per level (the prototypical Staircase straigt down).
--------If you have multiple entrances for whatever gods unkonw reason, they seem to choose at random which ones they'll travel up. Which can lead to criss-crossing the levels trying to go up. I know it's not actually random, but it sure seem that way

2b. Immediately after your heroes clear a level, Mine it in half
------This dosn't mean mine half the level, it means mine a single line (or 2 lines) down the center from the Top left edge, tot he bottom right. This will again drasticly reduce the pathing issues that come from some of the more maze like levels. Don't collect anything from the levels yet, don't do any massive constructino work... just Mine it in half. Just be careful not to mine into the underground lakes/rivers

2c. Use proper Stockpile/Container management
------Search on this forums for Citybuilders guide (or some others)... there is nothing to keep a citizen from giong after something deep in the dungeon
if you leave the container/job/stockpile open.

3. Move to a meat/Banana based eating system.
--------Plain old bread just doesn't feed them enough. Anything with 90+ food quality gives them enough food to sleep and run all the way across the map in the deepest dungeon and come back, no problem

4. Queue up graves. You don't need to wait until someone dies to queue up graveyards.\
------- Build 10 or 15 of them, and your citizens will auto-bury whoever dies. Mulitple ghosts spawn from one corpse.... but it takes a lot of time of that corpse being ignored for that to happen Just be careful, because that sometimes means your citizens will immediately run to whomever died (including heroes) and get slaughtered in mass. This brings me to my next point...

5. HAVE SOLDIERS. And update their armor/weapons
------- Even 1 or 2, when equipped with truly insane weapons (hint: GOLD/Silver. If you haven't mined that far, buy the materials from the merchants and equip your soldiers before heroes) will tear through any number of GOHP, or mobs above level -12. Combine this with at least goblinite/hobgoblinite armor and they are immortal (until the damn burning pets and possibly cave trolls) Put those soldiers on "guard" duty (not patrol) and give them boots of haste. They might not keep your first citizen from dying, but they'll get there quick and mow through your average pile of mobs.

6. Get in the habit of checking your materials inventory for bodies/Remains
------ I check this all the time. All it takes is to click on the one button at the top of your screen, and you can instantly tell if you have dead bodies. If the answer is yes, take care of it immediately. I don't care if you have to temporarily deputize half your population into a patrol team of soldiers to clear out that section of the map.... DO IT. Takes apprx 2 minutes, and keeps you from having heartache.
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Re: They are dieing everywhere!

Postby pander » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:21 pm

One thing I'd change about that advice is to not give the patrol soldiers boots of haste unless you can afford boots of haste on every person in your town. Reason one: boots of haste are better utilized on haulers and other citizens that routinely move great distances. Reason two: you want every member of the patrol to have the same walk speed, otherwise you tend to lose the fastest patrol members to stronger enemies. A fine tuned patrol group should reach a point all at once to get in as many hits in the first round before they can be OHKO'd. I also avoid equipping helms of the pigslayer and masks of the beast on patrol members because of this.
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Re: They are dieing everywhere!

Postby YetiChow » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:55 am

Even with the best foods (arguably Roasts are the best in this case, because when your townies are hauling the onyl real consideration is fill PCT and the roast is king here with over 200%), there are two situations where you can still get issues:

1) if they eat, haul (using up most of their "full" time) and then immediately take another long hauling task. Unfortunately there's not much you can do about this, although you could make a series of doors in a corridor leading to the dungeon entrance and lock any starving townies out... they should cancel their task when they don't get through, and then go and eat. Just make sure not to mess up the rest of the towns' pathing in the process...

2) most of the ite armours and the silver/golden weapons (especially the magical ones) have several steps and ingredients, each of which will require a trip to the depths of the dungeon. This is even worse than the hauling situation, as the townie is guaranteed four, five or even six (!) trips to the dungeon between meals. Fortunately you can do a lot about this this; first is to only build ite/gold/silver gear when you've hauled all of the materials from the dungeon (as in make sure there are no gold, silver or ites in the dungeon at all, they're all in town and preferably near the forge), although this can take a lot of time... you can also mod in regular breaks for your townies; add the <unlock/> tag between each step (put it between <destroy/> and the next <pick>whatever<pick/>) and your towneis will only eve be one trip away from a meal.

3) ROADS!!! roads everywhere! miles upon miles of sprawling, paved highways! Ahem... what I mean is, anywhere that you can you should limit the number of pathways available and pave that single route to increase the townies' speed. It's not really a practical solution in the maze-like dungeons, but if you're going one level at a time (which is the safest and most sure way) then you can mine/wall in a single, straight path between your ladders and force the townies onto roads for significant speed boosts. When applied over every level it can cut the time/distance waaaaaaaaay down; which will literally be a lifesaver and also speed up the overall time of clearing out/mining out dungeon levels.

Combine all of the above suggestions, and you should never have to worry about haulers staving again.
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Re: They are dieing everywhere!

Postby Max » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:32 pm

Awesome feedback, thanks a lot guys! Sure will improve the lifespan of my townies.

Speaking of ghosts and entrances, at the beginning of the game I... uh... Dug a block too deep and lost 3 people there. Ignored that floor as 'too dangerous'. Some time later I looked upon it.. and saw army of the undead. So I spent a long time preparing, then I build an entrance to the dungeon which was a spiral of stone walls filled with something like 20 plans traps and maybe 30 bear traps. The floor is clean so I should probably open it up already... :D Thanks again for the advice!

(They could add food inventory allowing holding a small food item - a fruit or cookie - to eat when food is too far)

[EDIT]
How would you suggest to queue task?
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