dealing with high end surface enemies?

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dealing with high end surface enemies?

Postby smeagolthevile » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:58 am

How do you guys deal with high end surface enemies?

It seems every game I start any food that is avaliable is surrounded by froggies and toadies or black and gold snake people and there is just nothing I can do, since I cant make a army to killem at the start and on my own a townie doesnt stand a chance. Every game I start I end up going down to around 7 or 8 people just trying to get food to start up.
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Re: dealing with high end surface enemies?

Postby pander » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:22 am

Here's how I deal with the hostile maps (snow, jungle, and to a lesser extent, desert).

Find a relatively close spot from your starting position that has enough fruiting plants to sustain a campground (but far enough away from things like the brownie village). Move there with all of your immigrants, harvest all the food in that area and try to take out as many hostiles by sending townies en masse to til land near a hostile. Make sure to set up a hospital, fifteen personal rooms, a dining room and a market in that camp. Now you want to use all of the food you harvested to plant your temporary plantation, continuing to harvest and plant as the new plants grow to maturity. Make sure you've planted enough to have a surplus for when you start getting more immigrants and open up the tavern. If you are in the jungle, feel free to set up the bakery and pump out the jungle salads. If you have a surplus, invite heroes and let them do the dirty work of cleaning out most of the enemies.

Chop down trees in that camping area and mine anything you can and start pumping out stone spears and wooden helmets (one for each townie). When everyone is fitted with that equipment, move on to wooden chest pieces, then on to the next piece, etc. until everyone is fully fitted. When you have enough equipment to feel safe (up to chest pieces stage is when I'm ready) form a patrol group of six soldiers and start sending them to clear out specific points on the map (where there are dead bodies especially, to get them into graves). Only plant a number of trees for lumber when you know you have a clear path to each bush your townie will run to (always the closest to their current position).

If you have the patrol party set up and immigrants are arriving, you can send the patrol out to meet them (essentially clearing the way back to the camp for the new arrivals). Make sure you have at least four soldiers awake and not hungry when you start a patrol route. The urge to save new immigrants before you have effective patrolling equipment is foolhardy, you'll just lose more of your already established and somewhat equipped townies for naked newbies. However, you want to make sure you always have the door open for more immigrants, as you'll win in the jungle even with a war of attrition. Avoid setting up any sort of livestock based food until the map is cleared.

I've trimmed my losses in the jungle (which I think is by far the hardest map) to six above ground deaths using the method I just described.
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Re: dealing with high end surface enemies?

Postby YetiChow » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:58 am

In a lot of cases it's an all-or nothing situation - you either spawn in the middle of a pack of enemies and everyone dies, or else you get a clear run and are basically prepared when you run into your first fight with a wandering enemy. I would personally reccomend practicing "marshaling" your towneis for those unexpected run-ins; perhaps reduce the number of enemies (a very simple modding tweak in gen_living.xml) until you get the hang of defending your fledgling town and then ramp it back up to vanilla levels?
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Re: dealing with high end surface enemies?

Postby pander » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:26 am

Oh yeah, my very most recent spawn in the jungle plopped my settlers directly into the middle of the froggy village. I picked the best hole I could find in the village, sent the townies through it and lost only three to the initial aggro, then I only lost three more immigrants due to very careful play. I later gated in the community of brownies, as part of the agreement of the townie/brownie armistice. It's kind of amusing checking in on the brownie population every once in a while as my townies dive further into the dungeon.

Before I forget to mention specifically, two types of brownies do not move from their initial spawn points around the tree stumps until aggro'd, use this to your advantage if you can.
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Re: dealing with high end surface enemies?

Postby Arathok » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:23 pm

smeagolthevile wrote:How do you guys deal with high end surface enemies?

It seems every game I start any food that is avaliable is surrounded by froggies and toadies or black and gold snake people and there is just nothing I can do, since I cant make a army to killem at the start and on my own a townie doesnt stand a chance. Every game I start I end up going down to around 7 or 8 people just trying to get food to start up.


I like to see it like the colonisation of America. There were so many settlers, who died because of the Winters or the wildlife and in the end it was the Native Americans, who showed them the way how to get food started on the eastcoast.

So when I start a game and the townies are down to 4 or just 1, i still try to build up, even if its hard to do. But it feels much more rewarding to get more immigrants. So for me death of Townies at game start, are a normal thing for me. Imagine you would be "plopping" out in a complete new Landscape with an environment you don't know? You also would have to try things out.Like many of the Neanderthals died of eating belladonna here in Germany (it tasted relatively good i suppose) :)

Point is in an evidently harsh and unforgiving environment, which is trying to kill you, it is definetly an achievement, to search for a calm place (even if there is no surface, coal or iron, or wheat, or trees) and to build up a thriving colony.

PS: I don't want to enrage or annoy or upset someone with this post. I am no native english speaker/write and don't know if there are any combinations of words which could be insulting.
(and although it might not be helping you, it could open a new point of view for you)#

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Re: dealing with high end surface enemies?

Postby YetiChow » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:32 am

Arathok wrote:
smeagolthevile wrote:How do you guys deal with high end surface enemies?

It seems every game I start any food that is avaliable is surrounded by froggies and toadies or black and gold snake people and there is just nothing I can do, since I cant make a army to killem at the start and on my own a townie doesnt stand a chance. Every game I start I end up going down to around 7 or 8 people just trying to get food to start up.


I like to see it like the colonisation of America. There were so many settlers, who died because of the Winters or the wildlife and in the end it was the Native Americans, who showed them the way how to get food started on the eastcoast.

So when I start a game and the townies are down to 4 or just 1, i still try to build up, even if its hard to do. But it feels much more rewarding to get more immigrants. So for me death of Townies at game start, are a normal thing for me. Imagine you would be "plopping" out in a complete new Landscape with an environment you don't know? You also would have to try things out.Like many of the Neanderthals died of eating belladonna here in Germany (it tasted relatively good i suppose) :)

Point is in an evidently harsh and unforgiving environment, which is trying to kill you, it is definetly an achievement, to search for a calm place (even if there is no surface, coal or iron, or wheat, or trees) and to build up a thriving colony.

PS: I don't want to enrage or annoy or upset someone with this post. I am no native english speaker/write and don't know if there are any combinations of words which could be insulting.
(and although it might not be helping you, it could open a new point of view for you)#

Have a nice evening, all of you.


I kind iof agree, but because I'm a (mostly :twisted:) kind overl- I mean, leader :lol:, I see it as a chalenge to keep as many of the original settlers alive as possible. They usualy end up becoming the town "heroes" and "captains" - one wil get a fancy feather hat for example and become the main trader, one will become captiain of the guards, one will be the industrial supervisor... it's a tad more RP than is strictly "healthy" or "normal", but when I can get al eleven starters through to the point that the dungeons are clear and the town is "safe" (walled in, thriving trade, exquisite goods being produced, no starvation) it's a real achievement.
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Re: dealing with high end surface enemies?

Postby smeagolthevile » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:39 pm

The problem for me isn't the normal monsters, froggies, black snake crabs, its when you barly have a single carpentry set up and you have golden snake crabs, or yeti, just walking into your town.

Honestly, there should be some sort of... buffer time before you have to worry about them.

Minecraft does it by starting you during the day, terraria doesn't and its frustrating as crap but the early enemies are easy to kill.

If we dont have a command to make townies go and defend others there should be some sort of pregame preace mode option
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Re: dealing with high end surface enemies?

Postby Arathok » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:38 pm

smeagolthevile wrote:...

If we dont have a command to make townies go and defend others there should be some sort of pregame preace mode option


If you want you can edit the livingentities.xml and mod the golden snakes to be friendly and add the line <hate>HERO</hate>

So they will only attack heroes.
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Re: dealing with high end surface enemies?

Postby YetiChow » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:58 am

Another option is to take the surface enemies out of the gen_living.xml, and add in spawner items for them. Smithforge tried something similar, search "living world" to find out more - it's actually quite interesting as far as making realistic biomes and creature distributions.
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Re: dealing with high end surface enemies?

Postby korvar » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:51 pm

I'm sure I posted this, but it seems to have vanished...

I think the best solution is to put down a tavern and tavern rooms as soon as you can, and get some heroes in. They will actually seek out the froggies etc. and deal with them, and if you manage to keep your townies alive they will replenish themselves if killed. Just make sure your townies aren't motivated to pick up anything the froggies leave behind!
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